Clara/River, y u no exist?

[flowsoffire]

So, I've been vaguely thinking for a little while that Clara/River flirting (okay… Clara wanting to jump River is what I have in mind…) would be really cool, both in the finale and in fics. I would love it if that was part of Moff's "love triangle, but not what you're thinking!" plan, instead of… a love triangle… which I'd hate.

I've seen it done, and well done, but as a side thing in Eleven/River fics. However, I was convinced there were probably plenty of fun little fics shipping that around the fandom, and I was very entertained by the idea… But when I checked yesterday, I could find nothing of the sort either on FF.net or on AO3 and Teaspoon. I was pretty surprised—not that it isn't a big thing, they haven't even met on screen, but fandom does explore a lot! So I was wondering why nobody much has been writing it. Each of them is flirty, sassy, in each case there's a line to imply that they like girls too… Besides, come on. Eleven's face.

Personally, I'm not going to make it an OTP because Eleven/River is the core of all things and you just don't touch them, but I have more of a thing for Clara/River than Clara/Eleven (I love them, but not that way. Platonic!smitten)… Does anyone have thoughts about this? They should be a thing!

Finishing this by a pimp for dqbunny's lovely fics The lone and level sands stretch far away and The caged bird sings with fearful trill of the things unknown, both of which are AMAZING River/Eleven, angsty and insightful and hopeful and intense, with a delightful Clara in the middle, River/Clara flirting, smitten!Eleven, and, my GOD, Eleven/River/Clara/Jack as the brand new Team TARDIS. Yes. This is the stuff of my dreams. (Also, look at those titles… Enough said, no?)

Comments

[dqbunny.livejournal.com]

TBH, that's been my issue with Amy/Eleven and Amy/Rory/Eleven and Rose/Eleven (except River tends to be painted as a shrew). All of them seem to just ignore River completely.

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Hm, guess that's the path of least resistance? Or because it seems like you'll have to spend half the fic discussing monogamy? (Or if Bells was the first episode you ever saw, I guess.)

A/E and A/R/E set after AGMGTW seems to mention River quite often, but, yeah, before that... out of sight. (Haven't read Rose/Eleven in ages, but it seems like something the Doctor might mention eventually.) Everyone can do what they please, of course, but if you're, say, going to have Eleven marry Clara, some River mention would be nice.

At least, uh, the Clara/Eleven ship doesn't need the Doctor to bash River to make Clara look better? *headdesk*

(But you wrote Eleven-gushing-about-River-to-Clara and that makes it all better! Because... he would. :D)

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Hm, you're right, it's always a side in River/Eleven fics! *mind blown* Whereas the Clara/Eleven shippers seem to ignore River completely, just... she's not in the picture anymore, like.

TBH, that's been my issue with Amy/Eleven and Amy/Rory/Eleven and Rose/Eleven (except River tends to be painted as a shrew). All of them seem to just ignore River completely.

Yes to all of this… To be fair, it's possible and actually easy to forget River. The companion is always going to be around: there's only so much running off on adventures and further couple time *insert Eleven kissy sounds here* that can be done when they're sleeping. The companion is THE thing going on in the Doctor's life: we hear enough that the Doctor is smitten with Clara, her mystery obsesses him, and so on and so forth. River herself is globally pictured in fics as very aware of the companions' importance in the Doctor's life (logic, with her keeping track of the Doctor's whole history, plus her reaction to Donna). On the contrary, River comes and goes—and when she's not on screen, to be bluntly honest, even the Doctor seems to almost forget about her. I'm still waiting for someone to tell Nefertiti "YES, he does have a queen. Hands off now if you please." If the Doctor himself didn't have the nerve, it was to be the mother-in-law's job. Where is that Amy sass when we need it? (Also I'm never getting over River not coming to kick the Doctor's arse when he got freaking retired. I won't look for other examples, I could spend the night…)
Back to the point… It'll be interesting, when we get the finale, to find out whether Clara had heard of River's existence at all before the moment of their meeting. I honestly think both alternatives are fairly likely. Nothing resists the Doctor's ability to compartmentalize. (And looking past the story itself, strictly from the POV of the showwriter, it's pretty understandable—there are enough River haters as it is…)

Hm, guess that's the path of least resistance? Or because it seems like you'll have to spend half the fic discussing monogamy?

And yes to this! It's her own fault for not being around to defend her own after all—she should know by now that her husband always ends up kissing and getting kissed in the most random fashion! *sarcasm*
(Besides, in the case of Rose/Eleven, the basis is different: basically, "I was there first"… Up to discussion, that one…)

I would have thought it existed at least somewhat independently tho...
Me too… The incest argument seems obvious now, of course. But we all think about it because we've read meta (or some of us DO the thinky wonder *grins up at elisi's and promethia's posts). Of course everybody wonders and does theories, more or less, but I know that personally, I probably wouldn't have come up with that one on my own—simply because I felt that the family storyline had already been used a lot with the Ponds. Of course I see now that Moffat always pulls the related thing, but I'm sure I would have missed it. And I honestly have trouble buying the whole FF + AO3 + Teaspoon audience combined, collectively being like "careful, they might be related!". My faith in fandom awareness doesn't go that far.

maybe they just need to see them on screen together.
So yeah. Probably quite a bit of that too.

Or you could prompt it on the kinkmeme? Even though that's slowed down as well idk
That's a good idea! Thanks! ^_^

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

/post break
/yeah. I break wordcount. That's me, people. Deal with it

I was wondering earlier WHY I'd gotten that annoyed at finding no Clara/River… But I think I've figured it out now—came out of the typing a few paragraphs about fandom's reactions ;) I've always been pretty bothered by people taking two canon-straight characters and throwing them together because why the hell not! That's a long debate, but to sum it up, if you're about to change a character's sexuality, fair enough, bisexuality exists—just please, PLEASE acknowledge the huge change with its consequences on the character! One doesn't switch from straight to gay and back again like they might change clothes. But still people just don't seem to care. I like CANON gay ships, and especially since I'm rather DW-new and Harry Potter used to be my main niche… there was little of that. Here I'm very tempted by a ship that's not canon, but for which we have firm hints that both girls have more or less pronounced bi tendancies. AND to top things off, I can't really write it myself, because my character-continuity compass screeches "RIVER WOULDN'T NOT WITH A COMPANION NEVER" everytime I approach the idea with a very long stick. (*headdesk at the self-inflicted innuendo*) I look it up, and find nothing—subconsciously, I probably thought "is the universe against me???"
Here. I'm sure you girls are terribly fascinated to find out why I threw a little inner fit over no Clara/River… And now I'm nowhere close to done replying to everyone's comments and I'm vaguely starting to remember I was planning to start typing tonight one of the five fics that are sitting mournfully on my notebook (one of which involves Clara/River heavy flirtiness because if it's as far as I can go, I'll sure as hell do it and I OFFICIALLY DON'T CARE IF IT TURNS AU/INCEST LATER! JUST YOU LOOK AT THAT REBEL). Hopefully the others won't think I'm too being dreadfully rude! And hopefully no one will think I'm sounding a little bit too damn HYPER. Oops. Okay. Better send post before I attempt to reread this and some serious headdesking begins.

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

So I was going to write a really long encouraging comment... but that was before you posted your fic so it's not really needed anymore. *g*

Back to the point… It'll be interesting, when we get the finale, to find out whether Clara had heard of River's existence at all before the moment of their meeting. I honestly think both alternatives are fairly likely. Nothing resists the Doctor's ability to compartmentalize. (And looking past the story itself, strictly from the POV of the showwriter, it's pretty understandable—there are enough River haters as it is…)
Oooh, did you see the clip? I thought about what you wrote here and laughed. (Ugh, yes, indeed.)

And I honestly have trouble buying the whole FF + AO3 + Teaspoon audience combined, collectively being like "careful, they might be related!". My faith in fandom awareness doesn't go that far.
Heh, you’re right, that’s not really v. likely.

Here I'm very tempted by a ship that's not canon, but for which we have firm hints that both girls have more or less pronounced bi tendancies.
... it’s odd that there’s not more fic.

I OFFICIALLY DON'T CARE IF IT TURNS AU/INCEST LATER! JUST YOU LOOK AT THAT REBEL
Live in the moment!

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

So I was going to write a really long encouraging comment... but that was before you posted your fic so it's not really needed anymore. *g*
*thumbs up* ;)

Oooh, did you see the clip? I thought about what you wrote here and laughed. (Ugh, yes, indeed.)
Victoriously kept away from all clips but I watched the episode by now… ROFL, that scene! I LOVED the way River kept a smile and a straight face when Clara confessed she hadn't even known she was a woman… And Strax… And Vastra/Jenny swiftly changing the subject. ♥ /dying

... it’s odd that there’s not more fic.
Lots of readers were like "MORE PEOPLE NEED TO SHIP THIS" and I was like "*punches air* where the hell have you been all this time?"

Live in the moment!
Carpe diem! ^_^ (And nooo incest! Wut, why isn't anyone related?)

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Lololol, "have you gone a darker shade of green" was the best part. Also River bringing her own wine.

Lots of readers were like "MORE PEOPLE NEED TO SHIP THIS" and I was like "*punches air* where the hell have you been all this time?"
Score!

(And nooo incest! Wut, why isn't anyone related?)
I was waiting for it during the whole Gallifrey part, but, nope! Although, if Clara's that entwined with the Doctor, maybe it counts as related? O_o

[flowsoffire.livejournal.com]

Lololol, "have you gone a darker shade of green" was the best part. Also River bringing her own wine.
It was :D "Disgracefully." Yes. Always and in everything. Be disgraceful with such flawless grace ♥

Score!
YES! HA!

I was waiting for it during the whole Gallifrey part, but, nope! Although, if Clara's that entwined with the Doctor, maybe it counts as related? O_o
Maybe… eh, I won't complain. It kinda bugs me a little when Moffat is always playing the same themes. Can be very interesting, but can also feel… overdone. Too much déjà vu. The balance is tough to strike.