flowsoffire: (Contrast)
[personal profile] flowsoffire
I am now officially joining the club of the Adventure of Space and Time people who've been squeeing all over my flist. Watched it today and it was stellar. Especially as someone who's seen only the One era thus far, I had a blast recognizing cast, scenes, lines—and it was so exciting to see the whole crew brought to life, both the actors and the creators who would usually have been just plain names on a screen! Every character was just great, Verity especially—and HARTNELL. Oh, Hartnell just killed me. His character was so beautiful, so real, human—David Bradley did an amazing job, although the idea of an actor playing an actor felt odd to me at first. And I would always grin fondly, while watching the episodes, everytime Hartnell stammered and stumbled with his speech just a tiny bit—now the idea that this could actually come from his having been exhausted by illness so early on already just makes my heart clench :(

Everything about it was so great. Everything. The birth of it. The birth of the Daleks! The first showings, the beginning of the success—oh god, that scene with Hartnell and the kids! And the difficulty of change, already, of moving on—first Carol Ann's departure, then Verity's, and eventually Hartnell himself. That movie was such a personal and emotional journey—it just made me feel so proud of this fandom and its legacy. Fifty years and onwards ♥ And it all began with a colourful producer, a passionate, determined woman, a brilliant, grumpy old man and a bunch of other dedicated actors gravitating around him ♥ It's beautiful. I was already so looking forward to getting back to classic!Who, but now I just know I'll enjoy every last bit of the One era I have left to watch, even more than before.

This is it for Adventure of Space and Time. *breathes* Now, just throwing in there a bunch of Day of the Doctor thoughts, picked from my posts on [livejournal.com profile] clara_who and more or less adapted, ordered or updated with my thinking progresses:

Overall, I've been of two minds about it. As far as the squee is concerned, it's been beautiful. Ten and Eleven's interactions were as delicious as could be hoped for and more, Hurt watching them like "wtf" was brilliant—Clara, Kate, Osgood (she's called Osgood! :D), all characters were great. The Moment and the War Doctor both gave incredible performances—Billie Piper was really amazing here, and I LOVE the fact that she has Rose's face, but she isn't Rose. It's so unsettling and new, and choosing her to be in the special and no other makes perfect sense that way. This is Christmas. (I wish.)

Let me screech for a whole minute over the DELICIOUS attention to classics, THE OPENING AND ENDING CREDITS LIKE OH MY GOD, the pictures of past companions EEEEE Susan and Barbara and the Brigadier, and the thirteen Doctors all appearing. The tribute was just so brilliant and so fitting for the anniversary. ♥ I also thought I was going to scream when Twelve appeared in a flash. My god.

There are a couple of things I found confusing/problematic though—not enough to damage the whole experience, but enough to leave me unsettled. First, as far as classics are concerned—I just couldn't understand for the life of me how all the past incarnations had been called to help. But well, the image of all thirteen TARDISes all flying towards the same purpose—to save their home—was beautiful enough to make it acceptable ;) I was also really unsettled at first by Tom Baker's appearance. This Moffat interview article I previously linked to (or a small part of it, anyway) did help me understand the reasoning behind choosing Four and having him come at that moment, thus answering part of my questions about the relevance/coherence. I suppose some things you just ought to accept. It's a tribute; it's timey-wimey; it can be confusing, but it's got a meaning/symbolism and sometimes every single thing doesn't come down to WHY THIS DOCTOR AT THIS SPECIFIC MOMENT AND HOW??? The very rational side of mind is stretching to adjust, but getting there ;)

The Hurt regeneration was also very unsettling. Just… sudden, fast ;) But quite fitting that this would be the end of his journey. Of course I mourn a bit the fact that Chris didn't show up for that specific scene, but oh well. Can't have everything.

(Oh and I also love the shot of all twelve Doctor in a half-circle by the end, and the fact that if I remember well, One stands aside from the rest. The original Doctor! All the love for Hartnell.)

Now, the retcon. Not really sure how I feel about that—not happy, not unhappy either, I guess. I mean, LOOKING FOR GALLIFREY oh god. The notion of Gallifrey being back, it has GOT to blow the mind. But at the same time it is really problematic. I mean, in the Eight minisode the writers went out of their way to show that by the end, the Time Lords were just as terrible as the Daleks and Kath would rather have died than to trust one of them, no matter how different he acted. Then suddenly, Day of the Doctor rolls around and it's the fall of Arcadia, so it's all about the billions of children. But the Doctor(s) didn't only handpick the billions of children… They picked the whole of Gallifrey! And I can't help but to keep thinking about The End of Time, in which Ten was ADAMANT that Gallifrey by the end had become terrible and they should be kept from coming back. We know that his subconscious kept parts of this that his conscious memory didn't ("I don't want to go." Oh, giving this an actual reason was NEAT.). So… saving the Time Lords is great at the one time but not great at the other? I guess the situation was different because in The End of Time, he wouldn't actually have been erasing his own deed—but still.

And a smaller thing—Clara + the timestream. Clara first: what I didn't like that much was the fact that she seemed to walk away from the timestream thing completely unscarred. In fact, the extra, casual knowledge gave her a bit of a Clara-knows-all vibe that felt jarring to me at times… Clara has always been a) very perceptive and b) very resourceful, and I love her for it. In that ep, however, I don't know if it's just me, but I had the feeling that Clara was basically great in all occasions, in a way that went beyond her personal qualities, as if living so many lives as so many echoes had made the original self a super-epic, can-do-no-wrong Clara. I wasn't really that bothered by this because I felt the writing and Jenna's performance both carried it pretty well, but that impression did unsettle me a little at times. Clara is a favourite of mine, but that's in the humanity of the character. Here it was a bit like she'd suddenly become The Ultimate Companion. "I always know", etc. But just being Clara Oswald was already gold… Idk. Is it just me getting that vibe?

Clara/War Doctor and Clara/Ten were both brill though. Loved her perceptiveness, and the hand kissing with Ten :D And her meeting UNIT in the future really intrigued me too. And Clara still not traveling full-time with the Doctor, but teaching, doing her own thing and being very much independent, was brilliant. Very healthy thing (and god knows she'd need that after just THROWING HERSELF INTO EVERY POINT OF HIS EXISTENCE and living and dying for him a thousand times). You go, girl.

And the anniversary kind of left me confused all over again about the finale: because of Hurt's appearance, I expected finale and anniversary would be a bit linked together. Turns out they're not, and Hurt's appearance in the timestream was apparently only devoted to showing him to the audience (and to Clara). So the Doctor's great secret wasn't Hurt after all (?), and Hurt really had nothing to do with the Silence trying to avoid the Doctor's coming to Trenzalore at all costs—it was all just about the GI not entering the timestream… What with Moffat's plots unfolding layer after layer (cracks --> Silence wanting to kill the Doctor --> Trenzalore/his name), I thought Hurt was the next layer and so my view of things has all shifted now. XD (And while we're on the continuity between eps—well, the Doctor did just jump into his timestream, pick up Clara and… walk right out. That's what happened. Rather cool. I guess it was slightly silly to expect the special to pick up right where the finale had left off, but… yes.)

*breathes* Well, this is it. People who already commented on this in [livejournal.com profile] clara_who, I'll comment back sometime (hopefully in the coming days), promise :)

And I spent most of my evening doing this, after already cutting on my work time more than I'd planned with finding a proper stream for Adventure in Space and Time in the afternoon, plus various things that came in the way. Yayyyy. Oh well, keeping calm about this. (Actually not just saying that in an offhand way. My being calm/relaxed right now is good—I went full-blown hormonal earlier, flipped out majorly about the too-little-work when my mother asked randomly about it and then teased nicely, almost cried/shouted or at least my voice decided to jump three octaves, etc. It's funny in hindsight. Girls will empathize. =P)

Date: 2013-11-27 10:31 pm (UTC)
elisi: (Long Way Round)
From: [personal profile] elisi
OK, I will be writing meta, but I can probably answer a few questions.

I was also really unsettled at first by Tom Baker's appearance.
He wasn't Four, he was a [far] future incarnation. ('Revisiting a few favourites' re. the face.)

And I can't help but to keep thinking about The End of Time, in which Ten was ADAMANT that Gallifrey by the end had become terrible and they should be kept from coming back.
Well, he was adamant that Rassilon shouldn't carry out his plan. However, I like the fact that Moffat didn't just go the easy 'Oh they all went evil' route. I think there's a healthy mix, and considering what the war cost the universe, is it any wonder that people [generally] consider the Time Lords terrible. The 'collateral damage' was universe-wide. But from the POV of the Time Lords themselves, they were just trying to survive/battle the evil. (See the little mini film about Arcadia.)

And the anniversary kind of left me confused all over again about the finale: because of Hurt's appearance, I expected finale and anniversary would be a bit linked together. Turns out they're not, and Hurt's appearance in the timestream was apparently only devoted to showing him to the audience (and to Clara).
Yup, the Anniversary was a one-off. Yes, he was the Doctor's 'secret', but there was never a hint that he'd be linked to Silence Falling. (There are two stories here, in parallel. I'll go into that in my meta. Thank you for helping me see how to look at it.)

Now, the retcon. Not really sure how I feel about that—not happy, not unhappy either, I guess. I mean, LOOKING FOR GALLIFREY oh god. The notion of Gallifrey being back, it has GOT to blow the mind. But at the same time it is really problematic.
Yeah this I just don't really get? I mean, I have answered the point above, but mostly - it's returning the Doctor to who he always was (and is). It's about him, not about Gallifrey.

OK, off to bed. Hope any of this makes sense.

Date: 2013-12-03 07:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flowsoffire.livejournal.com
OK, I will be writing meta, but I can probably answer a few questions.
Saw that, can't wait to read!

He wasn't Four, he was a [far] future incarnation. ('Revisiting a few favourites' re. the face.)
Ohhh, I hadn't interpreted the term "revisiting" like that at all. Thanks for clearing that up!

However, I like the fact that Moffat didn't just go the easy 'Oh they all went evil' route. I think there's a healthy mix, and considering what the war cost the universe, is it any wonder that people [generally] consider the Time Lords terrible. The 'collateral damage' was universe-wide. But from the POV of the Time Lords themselves, they were just trying to survive/battle the evil. (See the little mini film about Arcadia.)
*nods* That was well done, yes. (The innocents getting killed, the chaos vs. the Time Lords in charge who were in a war-oriented state of mind.)

Yup, the Anniversary was a one-off. Yes, he was the Doctor's 'secret', but there was never a hint that he'd be linked to Silence Falling. (There are two stories here, in parallel. I'll go into that in my meta. Thank you for helping me see how to look at it.)
Which only makes sense, an anniversary special can't be absolutely dependent on the whole plot—it was just Hurt's appearance in the timestream that threw me… And lol, I'm always happy to hear my random comments poke your brain in the right direction ;)

Yeah this I just don't really get? I mean, I have answered the point above, but mostly - it's returning the Doctor to who he always was (and is). It's about him, not about Gallifrey.
Seeing it in a very Doctor-centred way is an interesting perspective, yes. I'm coming to terms with the whole retcon thing—actually, you helped in a very random way with the difficulties I could have had: remember the "50 times Doctor Who died" article? (Or I can't remember the exact amount of times—that's irrelevant ;)). I found myself randomly thinking about that, and it helped see the big picture of the show. On a strictly New!Who based POV, the return of Gallifrey just turns upside down everything we've had for the past seven series. But taking the Doctor's and the show's whole journey, with every single change, big and small—well, it's just one more step. The show moves forward, and only the thrill and questions are left.
Basically, I'm just pretty happy about Gallifrey's return itself—the way it was handled was what I could have more problems with: you made a very good point about the Time Lords' evolution, but we still jumped from terrible!Time Lords in the minisodes to entirely focusing on the innocents, blah blah blah. But that's the detail of the episode and there can always be nitpicking. Great doesn't mean perfect; we can be critical of some points, and still love it to bits ;)

Hope any of this makes sense.
When doesn't it with you? Lol.

Date: 2013-11-28 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darknessfactor.livejournal.com
Normally I would have some coherent response to this, but I just saw Catching Fire and I'm still recovering. If the Day of the Doctor gave me all the feels, then Catching Fire gave me a bloody heart attack. It was two and a half hours long and I didn't even notice.

I agree that Gallifrey being back could be problematic in the future, but ultimately I don't think it was so much about Gallifrey coming back as it was about the Doctor being freed from his burden; in spite of how terrible his people had become, they were still his people. We know that not all of them were as bad as Rassilon or the Master; take Romana, for instance, or that woman (who we still don't know) in The End of Time. Again: revolution? *slaps self* Maybe it's not only about finding Gallifrey, but about guiding it in the right direction again.

So I guess that the 'terrible thing' that the Silence wanted him dead for is still to come. Were you the one who posted the article about casting for the Christmas special? I don't know if it was true or not, but apparently Orly Brady from Fringe is playing someone from the Doctor's past. I have no clue what's going on with that. It'll be interesting to see.

Date: 2013-12-03 09:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flowsoffire.livejournal.com
ALL THE FEELS EVERYWHERE!
Yes, many people seem to think it's all about the Doctor; that's a perspective I didn't focus on as much—in a way it seemed obvious, and in another, Gallifrey's return was really a huge thing so it took most of the room in my mind. And indeed, there is always nuance—all Gallifreyans weren't going to have turned evil, or even anyone—war can make people merciless, but not necessarily evil. It was just a jump, Time Lords being terrible one second, Gallifrey being all about the children the next. Unsettling, but we can fill in the gaps with our own knowledge and insight (just like we can fill in the process of Clara's evolution, in a way…).
And the evolution of Gallifrey would be a fascinating thing to see, indeed :D Just like their view of the Doctor and the Doctor's view of them when he does find it. REVOLUTION! Why not?
Nooo, it wasn't me for the cast article. God, I can't wait to find out about the Silence! :D So thrilling.

Date: 2013-11-28 02:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com
An Adventure in Space and Time was the best and GAVE ME ALL THE FEELINGS!!

As for calling the other Doctors...there are ways to send messages to yourself and they have demonstrated that mostly in the books.

I kinda like that they are bringing Gallifrey back. There were a lot of rich storylines there that were abruptly cut off that can now be accessed...

Also, also - about TB...he has never EVER come back for DW. EVER. He said he never would. The fact that he agreed and to play a timey-wimey version of himself?! Just...mind-blowing. And it made me have all the feelings!! He is past? Future? IS HE JUST A CURATOR?! Either way, Moffat convinced him to come back...something no one else has been able to do. Which tells me a lot about how the Classic!Doctors feel about Moffat and the current Doctor/Show!

*HUGS*
Edited Date: 2013-11-28 03:01 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-11-28 09:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flowsoffire.livejournal.com
ME TOO! OMFG I just couldn't get over it :D

As for calling the other Doctors...there are ways to send messages to yourself and they have demonstrated that mostly in the books.
Good point :)

I kinda like that they are bringing Gallifrey back. There were a lot of rich storylines there that were abruptly cut off that can now be accessed...
Yes, there's a huge thrill about it :D That can hardly be denied ;)

Re: Tom Baker: oh, I never knew that! :D Thrilling, indeed! I'll trust [livejournal.com profile] elisi and go for future version…

*hugs* ♥♥♥

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