flowsoffire (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
flowsoffire) wrote2013-06-19 07:11 pm
flowsoffire) wrote2013-06-19 07:11 pm
Entry tags:
Rings of Akhaten rewatch—MY GOD RIVERRRR
Sooo. Been rewatching Rings of Akkaten and I just have to SHARE THE FEELS.
The River parallels were pretty much obvious from the first airing (see here for reference). The song is over, Merry vs. Melody (when Merry ends up not sacrificing herself, the Doctor tells her "There's always a way." ALWAYS A WAY OUUUUUT ♥ too bad there's nowhere to jump from), the power of stories and knowledge etc etc.
But KNOWING that the Doctor is always seeing River… That "The song is over" moment was all the more powerful for it. THE CHORISTER'S BRACELET IS EERILY SIMILAR TO A VORTEX MANIPULATOR, SERIOUSLY. HOW DID I EVER MISS THIS.
But mostly, mostly:
DOCTOR: You remind me of someone.
CLARA: Who?
DOCTOR: Someone who died.
CLARA: Well, whoever she was, I'm not her, okay? If you want me to travel with you, that's fine. But as me. I'm not a bargain basement stand-in for someone else. I'm not going to compete with a ghost.
DOCTOR: No.
There were snowmen!Clara and Oswin, of course, and also the whole new companion thing, the fact that the Doctor had to heal from the loss of the Ponds—but now that we know that he lost River too… could it get any clearer? Except if Clara went "oh, was that a former girlfriend?", I can't see how. And it's BRILLIANT, because Clara is Clara and River is River, and they are both huge in his life, and shippers wars suck and they're both awesome and I'm happy. And yes, I know that probably sounded rambly and a bit incoherent. That's me in enthusiasm.
That was my merry moment of the day. (…easy pun, I had to…)
The River parallels were pretty much obvious from the first airing (see here for reference). The song is over, Merry vs. Melody (when Merry ends up not sacrificing herself, the Doctor tells her "There's always a way." ALWAYS A WAY OUUUUUT ♥ too bad there's nowhere to jump from), the power of stories and knowledge etc etc.
But KNOWING that the Doctor is always seeing River… That "The song is over" moment was all the more powerful for it. THE CHORISTER'S BRACELET IS EERILY SIMILAR TO A VORTEX MANIPULATOR, SERIOUSLY. HOW DID I EVER MISS THIS.
But mostly, mostly:
DOCTOR: You remind me of someone.
CLARA: Who?
DOCTOR: Someone who died.
CLARA: Well, whoever she was, I'm not her, okay? If you want me to travel with you, that's fine. But as me. I'm not a bargain basement stand-in for someone else. I'm not going to compete with a ghost.
DOCTOR: No.
There were snowmen!Clara and Oswin, of course, and also the whole new companion thing, the fact that the Doctor had to heal from the loss of the Ponds—but now that we know that he lost River too… could it get any clearer? Except if Clara went "oh, was that a former girlfriend?", I can't see how. And it's BRILLIANT, because Clara is Clara and River is River, and they are both huge in his life, and shippers wars suck and they're both awesome and I'm happy. And yes, I know that probably sounded rambly and a bit incoherent. That's me in enthusiasm.
That was my merry moment of the day. (…easy pun, I had to…)
no subject
But Yes, the Song is River, the Doctor is the Sun God and she had been 'feeding' him in his old age, as his companions, but she is fading and he is waking up, to memories and pain. Clara comes and provides him with enough mysteries and her to keep him quiet for another century. Hurray.
And I don't know if it is my way of seeing the finale, but I don't think the Doctor was literally seeing River before the finale -it is bothering me because I have read many posts or fics where it is implied she is a ghost, Canterville style. I don't know how you stand on this, so I apologise in advance for the ranty heacanon. River was not out of the Library before TNoTD, persuaded he could not see her. He was rather haunted by her memory, Heathcliff style, -he "can always see her"- and did not try to get rid of those hallucinatons/memories -"I always listen". What was so surprising for both of them in the finale was that: River was consciously, this time, out of the Library thanks to Vastra and Clara. The Doctor is used to having the memory of River always around and to interacting with her the way he would -the man with an invisible wife in the Cristmas prequels-, ignoring her as long as he can when there are other people around -here, Clara. Except the fact the TARDIS heard River as she said the Doctor's name proved him this time it was River's real consciousness he had been seeing in the graveyard, not a creation straight out of his mourning mind. It took him some time but he realised he could not ignore her any longer and decided to interact with her, stopping her hand -probably by severing again some psychic connection they had- even when he knew it meant being confronted about her back-up in the Library and properly saying goodbye. River's surprise came from the fact that he could see and stop her -they were still even in death that connected to one another. That's why she says "I'm not really here": "this is not a younger version of me, I'm still dead, you should not be that calm seeing me again". Naturally, he would answer: "It's okay. I see you now and your memory is constantly beside me, even if I know it is only a reconstruction, a picture of you, made up by my brain. You're dead, not there, but I am never alone." Hmm, all that to say... I'm more cautious now to link River directly to the ghost in this episode. In Hide maybe.
And yes Clara is Clara and River is River -though I am now persuaded there is a little of River in Clara, as there is a little of Donna is TenToo.
no subject
And you were spot-on! ;) It was obvious she couldn’t be around forever anyway… Guess it was only a matter of when.
But Yes, the Song is River, the Doctor is the Sun God and she had been 'feeding' him in his old age, as his companions, but she is fading and he is waking up, to memories and pain. Clara comes and provides him with enough mysteries and her to keep him quiet for another century. Hurray.
*loves it* The infinity of a thousand futures that will never be…
And I don't know if it is my way of seeing the finale, but I don't think the Doctor was literally seeing River before the finale -it is bothering me because I have read many posts or fics where it is implied she is a ghost, Canterville style. I don't know how you stand on this, so I apologise in advance for the ranty heacanon.
I rather agree with you—he saw her, but in his mind’s eye. She was his ghost, not a real ghost. She lived inside of him. But she openly states that he hasn’t visited her—that implies they haven’t been interacting in any way. Besides, this might be me reading too much into tiny words, but he said "I can always see you", "I always see you". Might mean he is able to spot her whenever she’s there, but also that in whichever situation, he can—subconsciously—summon her image. The fact isn’t her constant presence, but his ability of seeing her. Makes sense?
River was not out of the Library before TNoTD, persuaded he could not see her. He was rather haunted by her memory, Heathcliff style, -he "can always see her"- and did not try to get rid of those hallucinatons/memories -"I always listen".
Exactly. :D Can I say how much I love you for the Heathcliff parallel? Heathcliff/Cathy ftw.
What was so surprising for both of them in the finale was that: River was consciously, this time, out of the Library thanks to Vastra and Clara. The Doctor is used to having the memory of River always around and to interacting with her the way he would -the man with an invisible wife in the Cristmas prequels-, ignoring her as long as he can when there are other people around -here, Clara. Except the fact the TARDIS heard River as she said the Doctor's name proved him this time it was River's real consciousness he had been seeing in the graveyard, not a creation straight out of his mourning mind. It took him some time but he realised he could not ignore her any longer and decided to interact with her, stopping her hand -probably by severing again some psychic connection they had- even when he knew it meant being confronted about her back-up in the Library and properly saying goodbye. River's surprise came from the fact that he could see and stop her -they were still even in death that connected to one another. That's why she says "I'm not really here": "this is not a younger version of me, I'm still dead, you should not be that calm seeing me again". Naturally, he would answer: "It's okay. I see you now and your memory is constantly beside me, even if I know it is only a reconstruction, a picture of you, made up by my brain. You're dead, not there, but I am never alone."
Yes and yes and yes and YES. ♥♥♥
Hmm, all that to say... I'm more cautious now to link River directly to the ghost in this episode. In Hide maybe.
Well, it only works as a metaphor. Like the songs—the song theme didn’t come from the Doctor’s hallucination, it accompanied it. Technically speaking that’s one hell of a coincidence, like the whole universe wanted to make sure his wife was ever so there in his memory.
And yes Clara is Clara and River is River -though I am now persuaded there is a little of River in Clara, as there is a little of Donna is TenToo.
=D Great parallel.
no subject
*is angrily right*
but he said "I can always see you", "I always see you". Might mean he is able to spot her whenever she’s there, but also that in whichever situation, he can—subconsciously—summon her image
Exaclty! It is him imagining her. The fact isn’t her constant presence, but his ability of seeing her. Perfect sum up.
Can I say how much I love you for the Heathcliff parallel?
Pss, have a look at that.
Well, it only works as a metaphor. Like the songs—the song theme didn’t come from the Doctor’s hallucination, it accompanied it. Technically speaking that’s one hell of a coincidence, like the whole universe wanted to make sure his wife was ever so there in his memory.
Exactly and series 7b was crammed with references -the writers were more consistent in their work on River's abasence than Clara's mystery *facepalm*.
no subject
*soothing hug*
Pss, have a look at that.
Ghhhhhh it's amazing. On an angrier note, I hold you personally responsible for my eventually giving up and getting myself a Tumblr after seeing that post. Guess I needed another way to FREAKING EAT TIME! ;P
Exactly and series 7b was crammed with references -the writers were more consistent in their work on River's abasence than Clara's mystery *facepalm*.
Mwahaha, you're exactly right!!! Well, it's Moffat's baby… ;)
no subject
Guess I needed another way to FREAKING EAT TIME!
And your sanity; I feel obligated to warn you, tumblr is the worst place in terms of fandom wanks, groundless hating and character depreciation... Users are much nicer and coherent on LJ.
no subject
Thanks for the warning :) I will TRY to keep my use reasonable for the moment though (aka only following friends and River/Eleven people I'd already noticed, keeping well away from anything negative, etc) so I should be okay! Hopefully. :)
(I'm still flowsoffire, if you're interested—what was yours again? Message if you don't want it hanging around the comments… idk.)
no subject
(I'm onaperduamedee ;) but my blog is pretty much multi fandom so...)
no subject
Subscribing done—and I don't mind ;) All the pretty stuff can have me curious or interested…
no subject
no subject
Thanks for the welcome! :D